Literally, within minutes that late Friday morning on May 1st of the announcement being emailed

to all coworkers, my cell phone started ringing.


While much appreciated for the calls, the timing however, lol, could have been bit different, as

woman and I had just sat down to eat lunch at a new-to-us restaurant, that I wanted to try since

we were in nearby town that we didn't get to go too much together, but with just leaving the

Chiropractor's office we were in this town together.


…ummmmm, my pardons, please bare with me, as I've started this tale a bit too far down in its

path... let me go back a few days, start this story from there....


It was Saturday, April 25th, and Nicholas the youngest boy had his track meet at the (locally

famous & historic, 73rd Annual) Goshen, Indiana Relays. This is where umpteen schools from

this region, broken into two Divisions based on their size, compete in various field and track

events. Last year (2104), the Central Noble (Albion, IN, where Nick is currently a Sophomore)

Cougars varsity track team won the 4x100 (400 meter relay), their school's first win in such

event in decades... an awesome accomplishment! Coming back to present time, Nicholas was

dropped off at the school bright and early that Saturday morning for the team's bus ride to

Goshen, so I finished up some packing for an upcoming work trip to visit a couple customers

(one in Arkansas on following Monday, the other in St Louis then on Tuesday morning), and

then woman & I took the time to do some shopping on the way to the meet, before Nich's team

would run. After shopping some, stopped at a 'new to us' restaurant, had good meal, and then

proceeded to the track. Slight rain was falling, around two o'clock that afternoon. Found place to

park, I scampered ahead to check on what events were doing, grabbing an event booklet from

the concession stand, and found we had about 45 minutes, as evidently there'd been a delay

due to the Starter's gun not firing, taking about 20 minutes for that to be corrected. So, I went

back to the rental car I'd grabbed the previous evening after work, sat with woman for a bit, and

then not wanting to miss anything possibly we left, donning our rain gear, temps around mid

60's. After arriving at the track itself, we parted ways, with her going up into the top row of the

stands, and me by the start/finish line, as she likes to be up high for the videoing, and I like to be

at the start/finish line and ground level for the photographs. After ~20 minutes, I surprised her

with a cup of hot cocoa I'd just bought from the concession stand for her. Another 20 minutes

passed, and here we go... the Cougar boys were getting ready for their first event, the “800

Spring Medley”, which they got very respectable 2nd place (missing 1st place by 1.3 seconds).

The big event (for our interest) was the 4x400 (1600 meter relay), which they won! A damn big

congratulations to these Cougar boys! After the runs were done, we signed Nick out, and drove

the ~45 minutes to the house, where I finished packing, hugged the dogs and patted the boys &

woman on their noggin, and I departed for Missouri, to surprise my mom, an hour or two later

start than I desired, but still a good day.


The drive to mom's that Saturday late afternoon was mostly uneventful, well except for the ~40

minutes it took to go about 4 miles due to a wreck just north of Indy on I-69. Oh, the stop at

Steak 'n Shake in Effingham, IL when I went for dinner provided to be entertaining... as the poor

lass behind the counter I guess didn't really hear me too well or didn't believe what I asked for,

as when I stated I wanted a shake, with mix of butterfinger plus cookie dough plus Mint... so,

when I came out of the rest room, she's standing there all proud with a tray of three different

shakes, and I grin while shaking my head slowly, stating that thanks, but ummmmm, these were

all supposed to be one shake, mixed together. Her eyes and face couldn't believe what she was

hearing, that some fool would actually want a mixture of all these, together. So, after a comment

about how interestingly strange that sounded (not quite sure if she was referring to the shake

request, or maybe towards me...), she smiled, and handed these three shakes to me, along with the

Prince Royale bacon-cheeseburger and Frisco melt. So, now I'm leaving with two burgers and

three shakes... so, upon going out the door, a guy and his lady were coming into the restaurant,

so I asked him if he wanted a shake, as I'd an extra... told him he could pick any of the two that

were not the mint. He grabbed one and said thanks, and on I went down the road a couple

blocks to fuel up the car too. At the station, a guy was filling up his truck, so asked him if he

wanted a free shake, explaining that I'd just left Steak 'n Shake, nothing wrong with it just that

I've an extra one. Thought it was Christmas from look on his face... some goofy stranger

passing out a free shake. So, after playing Santa and done with the fueling, I left the station, and

made the rest of the uneventful drive, kicking to some tunes that Sirius provided.


Getting to the Lake entrance around 1am, stopped to open mom's mailbox, getting the few

letters for her, and drove down the rest of the ~mile to her house, parked, and went up to the

door, knocking. She inquired 'who is it', I replied its the mailman, special delivery... she opened

door, and smiled, making the trip worth the drive. Hugged a bit, talked a bit, then went to rest a

bit. Up the next morning, found mom in the kitchen, said hey, ate breakfast, and went outside,

walked around the half of a knee-deep grass to pick up sticks & limbs from past recent storms,

and then after putting some fuel in it, got the push mower started after a few tries. Got the grass

all mowed, and then raked some, to get the big clods out, and placed some of these grass

clippings & leafs on the drive to help protect if from erosion. Went back in, took shower, got

dressed, hugged mom bye, and got back in the rental to head to west-central Arkansas, via

Springfield, MO. Was cool to have a mini-small family reunion of sorts as headed to the

entrance to the Lake, as had the pleasure of seeing Ron (a cousin), Uncle Roger & Aunt Pat,

and then Uncle Bill & Aunt Glo... was great to see them, catch up a bit. I got back into the rental

to head south on the Old Iron Road, and then west on I-44, which parallels ol' Route 66.


In St. James, I stopped at one of those dangerous (to me) places that sell yogurt by the weight,

where you can add all kinds of tasty treats to the large bowl/cup, such as blackberries and

blueberries and strawberries, along with pieces of butterfinger and cookie dough and chocolate

mint and other tastienesses upon the different yogurt flavours... all for only twelve dollars! What

a deal! Tastiness, and its all healthy too... made a great lunch. So, proceeded down the

interstate, an hour or so later found myself smiling at the memories of being in these beautiful

hills and hollers as traversed through Phelps and Pulaski Counties, seeing the wonderful valleys

of the mighty rivers and creeks that have carved this rugged terrain, exposing rocky glades &

bluffs and caves & springs, and wide variety of trees and plants, all in their springtime glory,,, a

massive difference to the starkness still in the colder northeastern Indiana area. Thankfully, I

foolishly also thought at the time, I would be able to listen to the Blues' game against the Wild, a

game that the over-payed boys had to win... but alas, after a few curse words and shaking of

head in disappointment, these fricking' uninspiring heart-less laggards lost, again. So, to help

console my annual springtime grief, I took a slight detour off the highway, heading west down

the curvy road to the Devil's Den State Park.


Practicing my infamous Mario Andretti moves (similar to what makes most mortals's flesh go

pale and hearts want to stop), I finally reached the bottom of the hill via this dropping curvy road,

stopping at the ranger / visitor station, right at 5:05 pm when the Ranger was getting ready to

depart. We chatted a bit, I thanked him for help, grabbed a park brochure, went to rest room,

and hit one of the trails. Ranger had stated it'd take about half-hour to hike that path... ha, about

almost three hours later, I found myself back at the car, with tired yet happy feet and soul, and a

cell phone camera and a Canon 70D camera both with some snapshots of the beauty that was

found within this section of the Arkansas Ozarks. Me being me, of course I didn't head straight

back up the hill to continue my journey to Mena, where my accommodations were waiting for

me, but no, I headed down the hill a bit, turned right to parallel the flowing creek, crossed a

bridge, and got back out to soak in some more of the beauty that was found here. Unfortunately,

sun was falling about as fast as my stomach was reminding me it needed fuel too... so, that poor

rental tore up the too-narrow and curvy asphalted path back up the hill, towards civilization.

Turning on cell settings to reconnect to the nearby towers, I called woman, said hey, and we

started the UrbanSpoon (RIP) search for restaurants in the next town, Fort Smith. Finding a couple

interesting places, I called both to make sure they were open, flipped a coin, and then turned on

Maps to get me there, to Ed Walker's Drive In. Upon exiting the interstate, and entering the

town's borders, I found myself going left here, right here, straight for a small stretch, then a few

dozen more lefts and rights, going through somewhat sketchy areas, filled with pawn shops and

some buildings that had seen better days in the past. Finally reaching destination, was cool to

see this oasis of neon and smiles in the somewhat decrepit surroundings. After rethinking about

sitting outside, the wind chasing me indoors, and then discussing options with the southern-

speaking waitress, I ordered their famous dish, their version of French dip, some fries, and

sweet tea, with a side of strawberry pie, with pecan crust. Of course, I had to compliment the

lady about how I enjoyed hearing her speak, that her accent was refreshing and great to hear,

as we discussed the history of this diner. Guy at the counter across the counter, we started

talking too, about how he and his big brother'd come here as young lads, with the bigger kids'

cars tearing up the pavement along the straight road out front, days before radar guns and other

electronic devices were in the hands of the local police, and how this area had degraded over

time. Interesting place, good people, good food. Paid the bill, said thanks to all, and took the

thirsty rental for its fill too, and then headed south, calling the hotel place to let them know I'd be

getting to them just a few hours later than planned.


The four-lane highway quickly turned into a two-lane road, with some curves tossed in for

entertainment. Saw a few cops, thankfully only from a distance, once when they'd already found

someone else heading north to add to their funds. The lady at the resort had asked that I call

her about 15 minutes before arriving, since it was approaching midnight... I'd told her I would,

but warned her that I wondered about the cell signal in those areas, I'd try, but we'd have to see.

Sure enough, took both phones a few times, but finally got through... when I was only ~5

minutes away, oh well, she had her warning. Pulled into the lot, and wow,,, just wow. Amazing

structure. Grabbed bags that were kinda tossed around in the back seat, went up the steps,

over the front porch, every once in while looking around to take in the sights of this place, couple

ponds here and there, with frogs serenading each other. Opened the door, and again had to say

wow to myself, taking in the open loft, and metal staircase, and beautiful wood. Said hello to the

lady, chatted a bit (her and husband built this lodge, expanding over the years, fell in love with

the location during motorcycle rides through the region), grabbed key to room, went up the stairs

and into the very nice and sizable room, turning on the fan, emptying my loads, taking quick

shower, setting phone for alarm, checking a few work emails, and crashed for the short night, as

6:00 am comes faster than desired sometimes.


Packing bags, another quick shower & shave, dressing, and down the steps for continental

breakfast, consisting of instant oatmeal, pop tart, and grapefruit juice, joining my 'new' (~9

months) boss, who'd flown into Ft Smith the night before to visit our customer together. After

going over the PowerPoint presentation a few times, we went to the customer via our separate

rentals. Upon arrival, warmly shook the hand of my customer contact, as it had been a few

years since we'd seen each other. Spent the day going over deju vue issues, quality concerns

that we'd had before when they'd bought our wire, and also from when they'd bought wire from

our competitor. Nevertheless, overall a good visit with some good people, especially including

the lunch that we took them to at the restaurant in town that was my favourite place, now owned

by same lady as before, but new name ("Staches") and a slightly different menu... with just

about the damn best gator bites I have ever had, between the meat itself and the breading, just

delicious. After the visit ended, a bit later than originally scheduled, shook hands, boss man was

heading back to Ft Smith to catch flight to Ft Wayne the next day, and at ~2pm I then started the

journey to St. Louis. Of course, me being me, again, I didn't want to take same route as did

coming down, or had before, so headed due east towards Little Rock, to catch the road that

Maps showed going north from there. Uncharacteristically resisting urges to stop at the multiple

rock shops along the road (this is after all a famous quartz crystal area), wanting instead to stop

for maybe half hour that I'd mentally tentatively budgeted at some interesting geological area,,,

but alas found myself sadly on the outskirts of Little Rock before I knew it, so I turned the car

north up US67 towards my hotel in St Louis.


Going up US67, a route that Google Maps had suggested stating would take ~5.5 hours, versus

the alternative of I-40 to hit I-55 which would take an additional 30 minutes of total ~6 hours,

rental and I headed NorthEast towards the Gateway City, and my hotel on its western outskirts.

Finding US67 to be like an interstate, and then a sign stating St Louis was a mere 300 miles

away, did quick time calculation to determine where dinner stop might be and when I'd arrive at

hotel, and then sat back, relaxed, kicked some good tunes, and mobiled up the road. Alas, such

good thought only lasted a few tens of the few hundreds miles, as Google Maps and Apple

Maps were both giving me warnings, along with the upcoming signs, that our happy road was

ending, with a detour. Evidently, a major road has its belly not completed, as I know for fact that

further north this same road is a nice four-lane road, as we used to live near it, outside of Bonne

Terre, when I worked south of St Louis in Herculaneum. What in hades, how the heck, why in

tarnation is this road not completed, with diesel trucks heading east on some two lane backroad

towards promise land of I55, and US67 being directed west for few miles, then back north on

some other sister road. Oh, the best laid plans of mice and men. Getting dark, and getting

hungry, and wondering what in frellin' hell my path was leading me, when I'd might be at the

hotel, all not so good thoughts that only the soothing and increasing louder radio somewhat

helped my mood. Of course, my navigator three states away via cell phone could only mock me,

laughing at my wrong decision, saying 'ha, evidently ya can't get where ya are going from there'.


A few U-turns and a stop at a restaurant to have some damn good pulled pork BBQ (and thanks

for the free apple pie stick, was tasty!), and another U-turn, finally was on two lane road that

claimed it would take me to the promised land via the real US67, that was "just up the road a

spell"... so, after heading west, heading south, heading east, and heading north, all on this two

lane paved path, finally got onto four-lane US67, went through familiar turf of Poplar Bluff and

points north, and landed at the hotel ~1am, almost twelve hours after departing Mena... a trip

that should have taken only ~8 hours. Finally arriving at the hotel, checked emails, and was

soooooo damn happy to shower, relax a bit, and crash into soft bed, for another ~5 hours, as

needed to meet the Account Mgr and the Ops Mgr for breakfast before heading to our customer,

which is located a few miles from the infamous Ferguson area.


Breakfast done, we loaded our cars, and went to visit customer, heading east with the rest of the

traffic jammers going into the city. Had another successful visit, this one demonstrating a new-

to-use wire product. Left there, we parting ways, and I seeing the time, calculating traffic and

distance, thought I had a decent chance to get to the youngest boy's Tuesday evening track

meet. Thankfully, it was at home, not the previously thoughted location which is about 40

minutes further north, so that helped a lot. Booking east with all the ponies that the rental could

muster, safe to say that I made my second fastest trip on record, with the one solo stop for fuel

and food taking a mere 11 minutes (yes, I timed it), of course it helped that between using

UrbanSpoon to find the restaurant and GasBuddy to find the gas station I wanted, I called ahead

to the restaurant to inquire about specials, and ordered so blackened angus beef bacon

cheeseburger would be ready as soon as I arrived. Traffic flowed smoothly (thank you), and the

few highway patrol cars that I saw were either already engaged with some other poor soul or in

the median napping (bigger thank you here), and I landed at the boy's school just at 5:20 pm.


So, as I was walking towards the track & stands, camera of course in hand, I called woman, to

see how the meet was going, her not knowing I was going to be there at all... was precious...

cause as I rounded corner, just barely enough to see her sitting up in normal top row, she saw

me coming towards the stands. I stayed down on ground level, yelled for the Cougars to go (not

quite sure where they are supposed to go, but heck, its what we yell...) and caught Nicholas

running his first race of the night. So, life be good... made it safely back, and in time to catch my

youngest boy running. After the meet was done, I stopped at DQ in town to let him get a couple

cheeseburgers and shake, me an Orange Julius (yes, that's my weakness too), and we went

home, unpacked, showered, and after one final time for the day checked work emails, set alarm,

and crawled into my own bed to get ready for Wednesday's work day.


Daniel the oldest went into town for his classes that prior day, Tuesday, as he had classes that

afternoon / evening and then he stayed overnight at friend's place, so Wednesday morning I

dropped the rental at Enterprise, and had one of my technicians pick me up from there, and then

Daniel after work get me. On way home, we stopped to get groceries, and headed to the house,

where we emptied the Celica of the groceries and Daniel's bags. Woman had some dinner

made, which I took outside to eat with glass of red wine, relaxing by the pond. Finished eating,

petting hounds, and proceeded to do some landscaping around the edges of the pond, now that

grasses and such were starting to get green and grow. A slight gentle rain had come, and about

an hour later I sat in the outdoor recliner chair, soaking in the soft sounds of the rain upon the

leaves and pond, the sounds of a train's horn and some ducks in the distance, the dogs at my

side... life be good. A bit later, noticed little dog Echo wasn't there, so called for her... she finally

moseyed back, and after sitting a bit more, called for little hound again... similar kind of results

with her, and since it was about time for me to get inside and shower, with darkness

encompassing the lands even more, I got up, and followed her where she'd been, down towards

the lower yard, about 50 feet from the pines... where to my dismay I found she'd captured the

female duck that had been gracing the pond with her mate for the past month or so, her neck

mostly broken. I let Echo know that this was not a positive action for her to do, killing an

innocent creature. Sent her on her way into the house, grabbed my car keys, and took the dead

duck down the road, to give her a proper place in the woods, instead of some cold trash can.


Came back, growled at little dog again, and took shower. After exiting, and later getting some

juice to drink, noticed my lower back was not feeling the best. Didn't think a lot about it, that it

was just tired, so had woman rub it some (so she claims she did... I was asleep when this event

supposedly happened, so just must take her word about this… ha ha). Next morning upon

waking at five damn o'clock, determined fairly quickly that the pain, that it was not good... lower

back, it was out, muscles were spasming and lower vertebra evidently somewhat mungled. So,

yea, Thursday was shaping up to be just such a damn good day...


After dropping Daniel the oldest off at school, I got to work ~645am, grabbed ice pack from

freezer, and sat in chair to prepare for the day's meetings and issues on my platter. Of course,

when Mike came by a bit later (he being my one remaining Engineer), he had to inquire if he

should get me a wheelchair... I assured him that if such would be the case, I'd be sure to let him

know. Smart ass. Good help is so hard to find. Most of the day was spent finalizing a report for

one of my favorite customers (TAW), one that I'd spent much time over the years assisting, creating

specifications for them, watching and testing their products to ensure compliance, and hosting

their audits, which two were major events, with multiple people over a number of days, due to

that the wire was going into nuclear applications. These "NUPIC" audits were some of the most

in-depth ones we've had, given the breadth and depth of the questions. Unfortunately, as Plant

Quality Manager, many of the findings I am not directly responsible for, therefore I am relying

upon others to do their part... which a number of these were not completed over the past year,

even with multiple proddings and beggings and threats.


So, the final due date was today, Thursday 30th, the last day of the month, final deadline.

Throughout the day was spent some on a few other issues, but primarily working on that report,

which I had about nine pages completed, the report maybe ~95% done, when I had a meeting

at 3:30pm that afternoon to review another upcoming customer audit that I had likewise started

some work upon. Little did I know, this was to be my last meeting @ Rea... as this was meeting

where I entered John's office, found the HR Mgr there too, and we proceeded to discuss how

we were parting ways, thanks to some off-the-way BS items... which mainly stem from lack of

support and leadership from his and others at that level and above. Truth be told, this day was

coming, and I and we all knew it... just matter of time... as I didn't kiss anyones' arse, don't play

politics, and I focus mainly on customer and internal quality issues, not BS of statistics just for

the sake of themselves and/or for presentations. New management there, new different ways of

wanting work... which sure, be nice when ya had all the basics and foundations in place, which

again was my main focus, but no... they'd rather place a pretty dress over a patient that is sick

from multiple diseases, and call her 'pretty' for the audience, instead of working on curing the

actual diseases that the patient is barely surviving. Oh, well, the ink was dried, the die was cast,

the issue of me being employed was no longer. So, packed my crud in a few (ok, it took six)

boxes, and thankfully didn't have to get groceries that night too, as barely room then for Daniel

and his gear to be in here too. Was supposed to stop at store on the way home that night to get

something, but I guess with what had transpired, I kinda forgot. Got to the house, had boys

unload the car, with woman's face one of confusion, as noone but Daniel the oldest was aware

of the new situation. After car was unloaded (thanks again boys), I had all sit down at table, and

shared with them all what had transpired this day. Oh, talk about ironic, in an off-beat manner...

that night, we had duck for dinner. I'd bought a duck few weeks ago that was on special, and of

all days, woman had thawed this out the day before, the day before Echo had done her deed,

and woman had prepared to cook this special treat... tasted good though, really did. I honestly

don't know if there were any dog slobbers on this one, but it was indeed tender and juicy.

Not having my back any better, no matter how much ice I'd placed on it that day, later that night

I called the local Chiropractor's office that had helped me some years ago, left message for

them to call me as soon as possible in the morning. Thankfully, they were able to get me in

around 1045 am Friday, so woman accompanied me as not so sure how well I'd be able to get

in and out of the van... based on how getting out of bed took about 15 minutes. Anyhow, upon

entering the bone doc's office he remembered me, and of course had to jostle a bit about how

pitiful the Blues played, which I shared that sure, but at least they'd won a couple games, unlike

his beloved Jets. I shared with him what the pain felt like, describing it as bruised from if

someone had hit my lower back with a baseball bat multiple times, and then took a knife to cut

the muscle from the bones severing them so they were, besides painful when moving, also quite

weak. So, after some more Blues hockey ribbings, the smartassed yet good doctor proceeded

to do the diagnostics and then manipulating my spine and neck and muscles. All was not

terrible, but the muscles were indeed quite tense, tight, lower spine a bit out of whack, and

needing a good thrashing. That was done, paid my hundred some dollar bill, crawled into the

van, and went to the restaurant I'd wanted to try... which is where we were at the beginning of

this story. Oh, after leaving the restaurant, had to scurry to the house, dump woman, toss on a

different shirt after she put some voodoo oils on my lower back muscles, and I enjoyed getting

into my low slung Celica,,, which was only seconded to when I got out of it about 25 minutes

later when arriving for a job interview, the second one at this particular location. It went ok I do

believe, will have to see what transpires. What is interesting is that I'd already started this dance

with this company about a week prior to the letting go day... funny 'eh… another bit of smallish

irony.

So, now it is a few days later, life goes on... kids go to school, woman aggravates [I mean helps,

seriously she does :) ] me, goofy dogs follow me around, my ears are going bit deafer since I get

to listen to more music more often, especially via headphones. Legs are a lot sorer, as am not

sitting at all, trying to stand and walk as much as possible, with a few laying downs here and

there, which dogs like to join me, sitting near my head, licking my neck, and wondering why

these strange sounds come from their master as he rotates upon the floor. Yea, there is some

honest concern about what the future may bring, what door may open, what fools would want to

hire someone that's been terminated, what path I may get on next, that hopefully ain't like

coming out of Arkansas on a darkened night when the road just ceases to exist,,, again.

However, I've got about twelve bottles of Creek Bed Red (damn good tasty sweet red wine,

stomped and created not 30 minutes from home back in a valley within Gasconade County,

Missouri), a few Hard Apple Crisp Ciders, about a half bottle of Wild Turkey American Honey in

the freezer, a few jars of 'shine (various flavors, real 'shine, not store bought), many thousands

of hours of good tunes, a few boxes of Dare Lemon cookies, oh yea, and a damn good woman

and with a pair of boys that couldn't ask any better of, any of 'em, and a couple hounds that

think they gotta lick everything and shadow ya everywhere ya go, along with awesome family

and friends, including some great coworkers, that expressed their shock, upsettness, and

support, including writing letters of recommendations that make me feel like Tom & Huck

listening to the eulogy at their 'funeral', so many damn nice unbelievably damn nice words

written about my work... cheek gets bit moist just thinking about it,,, thanks ya all, for everything.

Was a great 7.5 years... ok, not great... but good, but yes frustrating and stressful, but much

pride and accomplishment thinking about what we were able to do over that span of time,

bringing improvements and changes, so for example the quality PPM levels went from ~2800

down to below 800, with some many months in a row below 100... was great. Frustrating, yes,,,

especially the infamous Shit Notes, yea, Shit... not Shift Notes. And the umpteen thousands of

hours spent in meetings. The pain from hearing customers have issues with our wire, reaching

out to them to get situations resolved, and so on... losing two of my three Engineers, yet the

remaining of us, along with some great help from new technician, made it somewhat bearable;

great ladies and guys that I had pleasure to work with, durn good team. Good luck to

replacement, he'll get a lot of support I'm sure, as they will not want to see their pick fail,,,

support that they'll provide him that was not even remotely provided to me. Oh well, such is life

and politics and bullshit... it all stinks, so ya just wipe it off, and move on to the next pasture.

So, I stand here typing as still tad too painful to sit at my desk downstairs, and this now

concludes this tale of this one particular week... now, onto the next adventure... and again,

sincerely really honestly thanks so much to all family and friends, the furry ones too, for your

support and belief (and warm tongues & waggin' tails) in this old decrepit foolish stubborn hillbilly.

Later...